Built to Finish: What Ironman Racing Teaches You About Building a Company Worth Exiting - EP 152 🇬🇧 | Steven Pivnik

Most founders are great at starting. The rarest skill in entrepreneurship is finishing - building something all the way to a meaningful exit, without burning out, running out of cash, or losing the plot somewhere in the middle.

Steven Pivnik has done both. He built and scaled a technology company over two decades, navigating the full arc from scrappy startup to successful exit. Along the way, he became an Ironman athlete - and discovered that the two pursuits have more in common than anyone tells you.

In this conversation, Steven and Björn explore what it actually takes to go the distance. Pacing is the central theme: in endurance sports, you blow up if you start too fast. In business, the equivalent is burning cash before you've found your rhythm. Steven's framework is simple - monitor your cash flow the way you monitor oxygen in a race. When the numbers turn red, slow down before you're forced to stop.

The data obsession that changed everything for Steven started with a Garmin watch. Once he saw what structured metrics did for his training, he applied the same logic to his business: monthly operational reviews, department-level KPIs, decisions driven by numbers instead of gut feel. Revenue grew significantly. Not because of a new strategy - because of visibility.

On the exit side, Steven's top three: financials that are accurate and on time (table stakes for any acquirer), a clear growth trajectory that survives the deal, and a moat - something unique that a competitor can't easily replicate.

Key Takeaways

• Starting is easy. Finishing is the actual skill - and it's learnable.
• Cash flow is oxygen. Manage it as your race depends on it, because it does.
• Data beats gut feel. Structured KPIs transformed Steven's business the same way training metrics transformed his racing.
• Know your moat. Wide and deep beats fast-growing, but copyable every time.
• The mental muscle matters most at the end — in a race and in a company.

Link to Steven on Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/stevenpivnik

Link to his book: www.amazon.com/Built-Finish-Distance-Business-Life/dp/B0CB9HWSGW

Transcript

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00:00:01:08 - 00:00:25:10
Sprecher 1
Starting a company is hard. But here's the thing. Starting is actually the easy part. My guest today is Stephen Perfect, serial entrepreneur. I'm an athlete and author of the venture. Stephen discovered something counter-intuitive. The more we train for endurance events, the better entrepreneur he became, and vice versa. In this episode, we talk about pacing and like cash flow works exactly like oxygen in a race.

00:00:25:15 - 00:00:50:06
Sprecher 1
We talk about the data obsession that transformed his business, and we talk about the hardest decision every founder faces when to push through and want to stop. Three things you need to exit. Solid financials. Visible growth and demote Stephen based on all three. If you are building something right now and wondering whether you have what it takes to go the distance, this one is for you.

00:00:50:08 - 00:00:58:22
Sprecher 1
Enjoyed the conversation with Stephen and with me. Stephen, such a pleasure having you here.

00:00:58:22 - 00:01:01:12
Sprecher 2
And thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. Pleasure to be here.

00:01:01:14 - 00:01:30:19
Sprecher 1
You've written the book that I wish to have written. So The Concretes I'm a huge fan of Built to Last. I think it's a it's a management business classic. And you've written build to finish with a lot of sports background, business context. So really, really excited to dive a little bit into it. I think before we dive into the content, just give us a very, very brief background, what what you did before or on the way.

00:01:30:19 - 00:01:35:03
Sprecher 1
And because I learned you've written much longer on that book than I did.

00:01:35:08 - 00:01:56:01
Sprecher 2
Yeah. So basically the a description of the book is really a pretty good description of what my life has been like. I'm a, you know, entrepreneur turned endurance athlete, and I wrote the book in order to chronicle that journey of how I improved and from an entrepreneurship perspective, and how I adapted endurance sports as part of my midlife crisis.

00:01:56:01 - 00:02:16:21
Sprecher 2
So I found that, you know, the more I participated in endurance sports, the better entrepreneur I became, and vice versa. So the two have a lot of similarities, and I wrote the book to really to share my personal journey and to compare the two, and also to offer advice and tips and tricks to others that are looking to achieve big goals.

00:02:16:23 - 00:02:38:11
Sprecher 1
Super cool. Then let's dive into more details. Because you've been an entrepreneur. I work a lot with founders. I've founded companies myself, so it's not just starting things normally, which is the hardest part. It's really kind of staying on on track and especially when it comes to endurance, to stay long enough to really build something, figure out to something that works.

00:02:38:11 - 00:02:43:09
Sprecher 1
So what would you say is going the distance? So what does it actually mean to you?

00:02:43:10 - 00:03:01:21
Sprecher 2
Yeah, I mean to that specific point, I think starting it. Don't get me wrong, starting is always hard. But once you start, that's the easy part. And most people don't take it much further. After starting. And it's very, very easy to stop and to and to fail and to get distracted and to go off in a different direction.

00:03:01:21 - 00:03:32:04
Sprecher 2
So I think going the distance is, is the hard part. And learning to deal with setback, learning to deal with failure, learning to deal with a whole bunch of challenges that get thrown at you on almost on a daily basis, whether you know it, whether it's life, whether it's business, whether it's participating in an endurance event, and it's really, you know, figuring out how to have that mindset to keep going and going and going despite all of these things that are being thrown at you that want you to quit.

00:03:32:06 - 00:03:46:04
Sprecher 1
What would you say separates the people who kind of actually finish? And this kind of the fundamental title of the book. So what what would you say is what separates people who actually finish from those who who don't?

00:03:46:09 - 00:04:16:03
Sprecher 2
Yeah, it's really one thing, the finish really, really badly. And understanding what you're willing to go through and what you're willing to sacrifice in order to get there. So the finish has to be super meaningful to you personally. Like there's a there's a great book by Simon Sinek called on the why or knowing the why. So I wholeheartedly believe in people needing to understand why they're doing something, what the benefit to them, their family or their community is going to be.

00:04:16:04 - 00:04:24:18
Sprecher 2
And once you have that kind of as a foundational layer, then it makes a lot of things a lot easier during the journey.

00:04:24:20 - 00:04:46:14
Sprecher 1
So maybe a provocative statement, because turning this into entrepreneurship, because for me personally, it's much, much easier to stick to this mantra. I would say when it comes to sports, when it comes to business and entrepreneurship, I find it extremely difficult when to stop because of course we we know these stories. I kind of sold my house. I sold basically my entire fortune.

00:04:46:14 - 00:05:02:11
Sprecher 1
And then it turned out to be successful, and now I kind of IPO, etc.. So we both know that there are cases out there that are not as popular as the kind of success stories, but it's really, I think, in, in business, it's really, really hard to to decide, okay, when to stop. So how very. Yeah.

00:05:02:11 - 00:05:20:07
Sprecher 2
I mean, you bring up a really good point because, you know, one of the things that I also believe in is to fail fast, right? You hear this a lot in the business world that if you start on an initiative and it's not working, there's two schools of thought, you know, digging deeper, try harder, work longer, throw more money, and it's going to work.

00:05:20:07 - 00:06:01:00
Sprecher 2
And then there's another school of thought saying, if it's not working, just stop it already. You know, stop wasting money. Stop wasting your time. Stop wasting your passion. Go to something else. And I wish if I had a, you know, perfect answer for that, I think I can write another bestseller. And there is no best answer. But it's really, really important to, I think, really surround yourself with others that that have been in your shoes in the during a specific initiative and to get advice from others to realize when is when the the specific opportunity calls for failing fast and moving on versus trying maybe pivoting a little bit, maybe trying things a little bit

00:06:01:00 - 00:06:15:11
Sprecher 2
differently and continuing, to go after what, what you started. So I think the best tool for figuring out which way to go is getting advice from others that have been in similar situations.

00:06:15:12 - 00:06:33:19
Sprecher 1
Yeah. The other thing I just popped into my mind and I'm very intrigued what you are thinking about. So I'm a kind of, I would say a very structured data driven guide. So when, when you have let's, let's, talk about kind of doing a half Ironman with sub six and I, I did so and amazing. Yeah.

00:06:33:19 - 00:06:53:19
Sprecher 1
Yeah. It was tough especially in Switzerland with going up and down. But anyway so because I, it's really like you said. So if we kind of get this formula sorted out, I think it's worth definitely a new book. But so just to be very pragmatic, it would help me or it helps me to, to say, okay, let's set this target of sub6, which is kind of for for a hobby, quite ambitious.

00:06:53:19 - 00:07:26:08
Sprecher 1
And yeah, during my training I get some data point whether this is feasible or not and the same place with business. So at least nowadays when you work in sales and everything, which can be put into numbers, you at least have some corridors, some guidance, some guardrails, whether this is possible or not. Kind of thinking out loud further is kind of the the risk reward ratio or the risks success ratio is at least manageable in not just adding yeah, if you just keep on going, you will going somewhere because this is what I did wrong in the past.

00:07:26:08 - 00:07:34:09
Sprecher 1
So looking backwards, I spend too much time on businesses which had no, no chance to succeed. And I should have stopped earlier.

00:07:34:12 - 00:07:55:19
Sprecher 2
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm a huge fan of metrics and KPIs and measurements and making decisions based on data. And it's interesting. I wasn't always that way. I started off my entrepreneurial career more. And go by your gut and go by your feeling and go by your intuition type approach. And when I discovered endurance sports on my Garmin became my best friend.

00:07:55:21 - 00:08:19:09
Sprecher 2
I started getting all this data. You know how much data the Garmin collects. And after a couple of months and years, I think years, I've known a couple of quarters of performing, running, swimming, biking. I started seeing all these charts and graphs, and I realized I have more data on me than I have about my business. Not that we didn't have reports, but it was amateur aero at work.

00:08:19:09 - 00:08:42:09
Sprecher 2
So I went KPI crazy at work and I met with every department head. We came up with a set set of charts and reports that we were going to utilize on on a monthly basis at our newly instituted operational review meeting, and all of a sudden the business started growing significantly because we were making decisions based on data instead of on the owners, you know, gut, gut feel.

00:08:42:11 - 00:08:54:11
Sprecher 2
I can talk about this for hours. I'm just a huge, huge fan on data and decisions based on data. Was sprinkled in with a little bit of gut feeling because as entrepreneurs, we always we always need a little bit of gut.

00:08:54:12 - 00:09:13:08
Sprecher 1
Yeah, but absolutely, you made me smart because last year I upgraded to a new road bike and now I have a power meter. I have, electric shift. I have, of course, pulse. I have all these metrics and it's kind of crazy. But on the flip side, so the the training became so much more effective. And this is what I meant.

00:09:13:12 - 00:09:27:04
Sprecher 1
If I didn't, that ambition, I would say there is at least the likelihood whether I will make it or not, instead of kind of just hoping, pushing through, doing that the hard way. Which I find very fascinating.

00:09:27:06 - 00:09:48:12
Sprecher 2
Yeah, exactly. It's it's a wonderful tool. And, right now I'm training for my next Ironman, which is about four, three and a half weeks away. And I know based on my training data, to your point, I know, I know that I will finish it. So which which in this case that that's my that's my biggest goal because I'm not going for any specific PR, I'm just racing with a friend of mine, and I haven't done one in about a year and a half, two years.

00:09:48:12 - 00:09:56:04
Sprecher 2
So I just want to do one. And I know now that, you know, after this last weekend of training, I've got enough in here to finish one more.

00:09:56:06 - 00:09:58:17
Sprecher 1
Nice. But you are doing the full one. Great. The full.

00:09:58:18 - 00:10:03:23
Sprecher 2
That's a full one. It's in Jacksonville, Florida. It's there. It's Iron Man's first event in Jacksonville, Florida.

00:10:03:23 - 00:10:22:09
Sprecher 1
Okay. Yeah. So I, last year I finished another marathon with a friend of mine, and then I met, another friend and we were talking about kind of half distance and full distance, and you kind of start laughing and beaming me and said, yeah, it's decent effort to finish kind of, a half one, but let's, let's talk again if you do the full one.

00:10:22:09 - 00:10:25:22
Sprecher 1
So that must respect for you finishing another one.

00:10:26:00 - 00:10:27:07
Sprecher 2
Thank you. Yeah.

00:10:27:09 - 00:10:27:23
Sprecher 1
Enjoy it.

00:10:28:02 - 00:10:36:20
Sprecher 2
So now I will. I plan on having fun because I don't have a lot of pressure on specific time for this one. Then I know I'm going out there just I have a just to enjoy it.

00:10:37:01 - 00:11:01:00
Sprecher 1
Going back and forth, because I really find this fascinating, by the way, it wasn't scripted. So I'm very curious about the listeners. So not sure how deep you are into the AI game and the cloud code and everything that's going out there. But I started some, some month ago building up kind of a centralized knowledge graph and putting all the data in one one central hub, and now cross-checking with marketing, with sales, with, products.

00:11:01:00 - 00:11:23:04
Sprecher 1
Are we on track? So are we all working from different angles on the same focus? And this is another way of how to get more, at least chance to succeed in in this kind of centralized data, driven approach. Some say it's super spooky. I got really into the game and saying and tracking ICP fit what is progressing different segments.

00:11:23:04 - 00:11:28:01
Sprecher 1
So it's really kind of bringing the entire how to steer company on to the next level.

00:11:28:06 - 00:11:53:04
Sprecher 2
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I mean, to answer your question, I'm I'm far from an AI expert, but I, I use it more and more on, on a daily basis. And I think I'm getting smarter and smarter about how to use it properly. It's an incredible tool. And and you just mentioned a couple of use cases in terms of, you know, feeding in your ICP, putting in your marketing and metrics, and seeing, having getting advice on how your company is progressing.

00:11:53:06 - 00:12:06:21
Sprecher 2
That's kind of like just a tip of the iceberg on what any AI, whether it's it's Claude ChatGPT or others can do for you. It's such an incredibly powerful tool that anybody that's not using it is really doing themselves a disservice.

00:12:06:23 - 00:12:27:21
Sprecher 1
And the other thing I learned, and I think there's, a decent hint over to add to your system, basically how to finish things when it comes to pacing, I think one of the key element is I see it, at least in in business context, but also in sports context. What would you say is the pacing element of how to get there, where you intend to to finish?

00:12:27:23 - 00:12:30:04
Sprecher 1
How how significant is it now?

00:12:30:05 - 00:12:52:05
Sprecher 2
It's incredibly significant. I mean, obviously in the business world, you know, cash is going to dictate your pace. You can't you can't go faster than your cash supply. My advice to a lot of entrepreneurs is to to monitor it like, you know, like you monitor oxygen, you know, during a race, like, if, you know, if you're huffing and puffing and you're having a hard time taking your next breath, you better slow down.

00:12:52:07 - 00:13:12:02
Sprecher 2
If your cash flow forecast is not showing signs of green, you you have to slow down your burn and, you know, make adjustments until you can get your cash flow to a manageable level. And the same thing with racing. I mean, when I first started in, in different sports, I made the same rookie mistakes literally for years. I would start to swim too fast and I would get exhausted.

00:13:12:03 - 00:13:31:07
Sprecher 2
Then I would have to slow down. And then when it finally came down to the run, I would start. I said, you know what I need to be at a certain time. I would come out running way too fast and no three miles in. I was exhausted and I still had, you know, 23 miles left to run. It took me several years to finally figure out what my pacing should be.

00:13:31:09 - 00:13:57:23
Sprecher 2
On the endurance sports side, in order to have a better result and business wise, again, cash flow and many I'm amazed to this day, even more sophisticated businesses don't monitor their cash flow as closely as they should. And, when a rough patch hits, then they're having some some seriously hard times that can easily be avoided with some better cash flow management.

00:13:58:02 - 00:14:19:06
Sprecher 1
It's interesting that you mentioned cash flow because when I was, preparing this, this episode and, and I'm working with a lot of early stage founders. And what I see is especially so normally they're they're quite young. They are full of energy, full of motivation and power. And I see kind of a different level in kind of over pacing, spending a crazy amount of hours.

00:14:19:06 - 00:14:41:03
Sprecher 1
And I know that in the US there's this kind of new generation of nine, nine, six and really putting a lot of effort into into the game. And I was thinking, okay, maybe it will last for some years, hopefully. But there is definitely also kind of a set in energy management, sleep nutrition, which also kind of was on my bucket of pacing now 100%.

00:14:41:03 - 00:15:00:13
Sprecher 2
And I wish I knew as much as I did about, you know, sleep and energy and nutrients and diet when I started that, I know now I had the benefit of being younger earlier. So when you're younger, you can get away with a lot more things. So I started endurance sports young. I mean, you decide whether the your audience can decide whether it's younger or old.

00:15:00:13 - 00:15:24:09
Sprecher 2
I started endurance sports at 40. My body was capable of doing much more at 40 than it is today. At 56, I have to monitor my sleep. I have to monitor my diet. I have to monitor everything else that I put in here in order to get a decent result. And there's just so much data out there that again, anybody that's not looking at it in order to optimize is doing themselves a disservice.

00:15:24:09 - 00:15:40:00
Sprecher 2
And the smallest adjustments make a huge difference, especially in sleep. I mean, I, I love this little thing that I work for to monitor my sleep now because I don't always wear my garment. But this is on 24 over seven. And the first thing I look at the first report every single day is my sleep report.

00:15:40:02 - 00:15:40:17
Sprecher 1
Seriously.

00:15:40:20 - 00:15:57:12
Sprecher 2
So seriously, just to see, I mean, and I can tell, like when I look at the numbers and they're off, I already I already know even before I look at the numbers that I'm not. It was my sleep wasn't as good. Let's let's say. And actually, Zachary, I woke up this morning. I'm not feeling the best. I looked at the report from the ring and.

00:15:57:12 - 00:16:01:05
Sprecher 2
All right, tell me that you know what? You did not have a great night's sleep. And it was right.

00:16:01:07 - 00:16:24:07
Sprecher 1
That's interesting, because potentially funny story. When my daughter now turning six. So when, when she was born, I decided to become very rigorous, about sleep. And some young parents will laugh about it. And because that's the worst timing to to focus on sleep, but nevertheless, because I really wanted to understand how strong is the effect, I learned the hard way that alcohol is it's very toxic.

00:16:24:11 - 00:16:43:00
Sprecher 1
So there was a time at some point where I really studied like you did. So I looked at my watch and said, okay, wow, this is this was bad to my. And my wife kept, laughing at me. So I stopped for a while on. Not that this is kind of my daily routine in the morning, and sometimes I have to confess I'm totally misleading.

00:16:43:00 - 00:16:57:10
Sprecher 1
So I could happen that I had super kind of deep sleep, super REM, and kind of still not feeling super well. But I agree with you that the majority I you have the sense with this. This was a very solid sleep.

00:16:57:12 - 00:17:16:04
Sprecher 2
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, nothing beats waking up in the morning after like a solid, you know, 7 to 8 hours. It's just with without alcohol the night before. It's just an incredible feeling versus the opposite which is with with with alcohol or not. Great. And you just feeling that feeling you wake up feeling not the best.

00:17:16:06 - 00:17:33:18
Sprecher 1
Yeah. Out of curiosity, I'm also kind of I'm, I'm turning 46 soon. So I'm still in that kind of that generation where alcohol was, was I would say, a very strong part of social life. I was raised with kind of this kind of alcohol needs to be taken. So it got different or it kind of changed over time.

00:17:33:18 - 00:17:40:16
Sprecher 1
But how rigid or not rigid are you becoming or became? You became over the years with the the of.

00:17:40:16 - 00:17:57:12
Sprecher 2
Yeah, that that's my new favorite topic to discuss. So I'm glad I'm glad you brought it up because, I mean, I was born in a former Soviet Union, so I have Eastern European blood and genes in me, and my entire social circle drinks a lot. I mean, I'm embarrassed to admit how much I used to be able to drink.

00:17:57:15 - 00:18:17:21
Sprecher 2
And when I was younger, it really didn't affect me. And I did it just because of all the reasons that you mentioned that it was mainly for social reasons, because everybody else did it, and I was contributing. It's not leading the pack. There were times where I can I can go to a party, drink all night, and I literally ran the New York City Marathon the very next morning after drinking, all night long without a problem.

00:18:17:22 - 00:18:37:14
Sprecher 2
As as I aged, I can't do the same, you know, 2 or 3, you know, drinks at night, and I'm just not feeling the same the entire next day. Just very, very sluggish. You know, I can't really focus. And it's having a major impact on me. About exactly seven weeks ago, in preparation for this next Ironman, I decided to quit cold turkey.

00:18:37:15 - 00:18:41:17
Sprecher 2
I said, you know, wait until until the race. I'm just not going to drink at all.

00:18:41:19 - 00:18:42:04
Sprecher 1
All right.

00:18:42:08 - 00:19:00:10
Sprecher 2
The difference has been tremendous. I mean, I just waking up, like I said, even even on on nights where I don't get the best sleep, that I can, I still wake up feeling ten times better than I used to after, you know, several drinks. Right now, I'm. I'm standing on the soapbox, yelling as loud as I can.

00:19:00:14 - 00:19:18:20
Sprecher 2
Alcohol is poison. And even in moderation, it's. It's just not good. Well, we'll see, we'll see how I. I change my tune, if at all. You know, after I finish this race and if I get back to it or not. But right now, I'm on this incredible high of being off of alcohol for seven weeks straight.

00:19:18:22 - 00:19:35:06
Sprecher 1
All right. Yeah, I did a very similar journey. The next endeavor I'm it's on my list is nutrition. I still have some bad habits, but, when I looked into sleep. Quite disciplined, workout, quite disciplined. The biggest lever I see personally is kind of nutrition.

00:19:35:08 - 00:19:57:12
Sprecher 2
So it's a huge lever. And like what you, what you put in. I mean, the more and more I look into it and the more I try to, you know, stick to specific diets. I also just like you, feel differently after, you know, a night of sleep without alcohol. I know I feel differently after certain meals, like if I if I leave the bread out, if I skip dessert, if I minimize the carb intake, it's just a completely different feel.

00:19:57:12 - 00:20:22:07
Sprecher 2
Like before I it was hard for me to get through a day without napping because I love the nap. And when I started eating better with specifically a lot less carbs, I felt that, you know, I was less sluggish during the day and I can get through the majority of the weeks. Maybe I'll nap like once or twice during a seven day period, whereas before it was almost seven days, I just needed between like 12 and 2:00.

00:20:22:12 - 00:20:26:03
Sprecher 2
I needed that half hour 45 minute nap to to recharge.

00:20:26:08 - 00:20:43:12
Sprecher 1
So we're cool when, just coming back to your, to your book. So if you would write an updated version or a new one, would you cover kind of sleep, nutrition and some other aspects in more detail, or what would be kind of the angle of writing the next version of build to finish that?

00:20:43:14 - 00:21:10:02
Sprecher 2
That's a great question, because right now I actually have an outline of the next book, and it's currently it's 100% business focused on exactly on how to finish, meaning how to get your company to an exit. In my first book, I talk about know a lot of the steps that I took, but it's not very prescriptive. So the next one is I'm not going to call it the exit, but for all intents and purposes, it's going to be a formula to to build a company towards exit.

00:21:10:04 - 00:21:29:15
Sprecher 2
All right. But but now that you bring this up and I may have to incorporate because now that I'm, I personally am a lot more educated. Like you said, on nutrition, on alcohol, I'm fueling, on pacing and all this jazz. Maybe I will put a little bit of an endurance slant in it as well, to make it a little bit more similar to the first one.

00:21:29:17 - 00:21:50:02
Sprecher 1
Yeah. Because I what I learned is I became kind of obsessive about building systems. And when I looked into how to test for some people, I started kind of the sales guy and I said I never wanted to work isolated in sales. But then so when you look into kind of the facets of the entire customer journey. Yeah.

00:21:50:03 - 00:22:19:04
Sprecher 1
So at your use, think about marketing, you think about post-sales customer success, you think about product. So then you're thinking about routines, how to change behavior, how to become sticky. So there's so many things when you kind of open the Pandora's box, it's fascinating world. But then how to make it digestible. So that's why I was wondering if you're, writing a new one in that direction, how how big, how big would the, the books become or could become?

00:22:19:06 - 00:22:40:07
Sprecher 2
Yeah. I mean, there's just so much information to share. And just from a personal subject matter expertise, I think I can offer very, very specific advice on the business front, on how to get it, how to get it, and already mature company, you know, towards an exit on the endurance front. I would still I think I'm a ten times smarter than I was, you know, even ten years ago.

00:22:40:13 - 00:23:02:08
Sprecher 2
But I'm still an amateur because there's just so much to know in terms of like micronutrients and, and, you know, specific amounts and calories, calories in, calories out. The more I learned, the more I realize there's there's more to learn. I can share my I would probably share my personal, you know, formulas and systems, but there's a lot smarter people out there than me, on on those topics.

00:23:02:13 - 00:23:23:03
Sprecher 1
All right, then, let's close that loop, because we, we started about of, what does it take to really go distance and use and, and so you're working on the next book and how to exit. So when we just sum it up of some of the key learnings, and the transfer from endurance sports to finishing stuff and, really building up great businesses.

00:23:23:05 - 00:23:31:19
Sprecher 1
So let's do a top three. So what should be the, the essence of, with all the wisdom you gathered over the last decades?

00:23:31:21 - 00:23:52:15
Sprecher 2
Sure. So the top three is, first of all, your financials, right? You need you need to have an incredibly solid a system in place in order and corporate governance in order to produce accurate and timely financials at the end of every single month. That's table stakes, because anybody you're speaking with is going to be asking for them continuously.

00:23:52:17 - 00:24:11:12
Sprecher 2
And if you don't produce them accurately and on a timely basis, you're going to lose credibility. The second is having growth available in your company. If even though you've had a phenomenal track record of multiple years of growth, you need to show the acquirer that you can continue to grow with their help or as part of their team, or as you know, with their money.

00:24:11:13 - 00:24:31:02
Sprecher 2
Then there needs to be, you know, continued growth. And lastly, there needs to be a certain amount of special sauce, right? There needs to be something unique about your business that's going to be hard for a competitor to reproduce. I like, we call it the moat. So if the moat around your castle is is wide and deep, then you're in a great shape.

00:24:31:06 - 00:24:44:16
Sprecher 2
If a competitor can come along, and if a Lyft can easily replicate Uber, or if a UPS can replicate Fedex, then it's going to not. I'm not saying it's going to be impossible, but it may hurt you from a valuation perspective. So those would be my top.

00:24:44:16 - 00:25:05:02
Sprecher 1
Three when it comes to to sports. So number one totally correlates whether it's kind of energy which is training etc. so totally get it when it comes to to growth kind of progress training outcomes. Totally get it. How would you transfer the the last one? Find your the friend of your cutting edge in sports?

00:25:05:04 - 00:25:31:00
Sprecher 2
I think the cutting edge used to be up here like I'm I'm putting it into my head for the for the listeners. You need to have your mental game in place and stronger that strongly. I mean, everybody comes to the table at a race with, with, I'm mentally prepared. But you you need to be match. You need to make sure that your mind is as strong as all of the muscles that you've trained, because it's going to the getting through an endurance event is 50% mental.

00:25:31:01 - 00:25:51:18
Sprecher 2
I mean, obviously being physically in shape is table stakes because you're not going to get to the end unless you're physically there. But when your body starts aching and moaning and creaking and you think you're at the end, once your mind takes over and sends the right messages to the rest of your body, you'd be surprised at how much more you can produce to actually get you to that finish line.

00:25:51:20 - 00:26:10:20
Sprecher 1
So because there's no right or wrong, but what popped into my mind because I recently I kind of analyzed my style of road biking and and very simply speaking, you have kind of these sprinters, they kind of, they can push heavy, heavy what they are super fast for a limited period of time. Not kind of the endurance guys.

00:26:10:22 - 00:26:34:21
Sprecher 1
Then you have these kind of crazy people who just go long, so could be kind of an endurance kind of to the mix. And then I found more or less by accident, maybe living in Switzerland for quite a while. I'm pretty good in climbing and I started some years ago, so I came from running, then kind of triathlon, and then I discovered kind of trail run making the transfer to to number three.

00:26:34:21 - 00:27:00:17
Sprecher 1
So would you for me find your special secret sauce when it comes to, to kind of your endurance sports. So could be kind of that you are super, super great in long, long, long distance or you going crazy crazy when it comes to hot and do kind of desert events or go hilly or whatever, but find your sweet spot where you have kind of based on physics or motivation or anything, kind of a cutting edge if you would like to be.

00:27:00:19 - 00:27:01:04
Sprecher 1
You know.

00:27:01:05 - 00:27:26:03
Sprecher 2
I like that a lot, because endurance doesn't necessarily translate the same in every single discipline. And there's a there's a myriad of different types of adverse events. So figuring out which one is optimal for your specific everything, right, you know, or a body type, weight capability, skill sets, style form, etc., etc. is pretty important. And having done many different events, it's much more enjoyable when you do it.

00:27:26:03 - 00:27:38:04
Sprecher 2
Well. Yeah. Versus I mean I've learned the hard I mean, I can suffer, I can suffer through it because mentally I'm prepared. Like I can easily suffer through hard stuff. But the events are so much more enjoyable when you're just performing well.

00:27:38:04 - 00:27:52:04
Sprecher 1
Stephen, it was a pleasure having you. It was so short. While I think we definitely will see each other for your second book, hopefully it won't last that long. Otherwise we have kind of another, topic to to catch up. That was lovely.

00:27:52:06 - 00:27:55:01
Sprecher 2
Thank you for having me. It was a great conversation. I enjoyed it and.

00:27:55:01 - 00:27:57:13
Sprecher 1
All the best for your next event. So yes.

00:27:57:13 - 00:27:58:09
Sprecher 2
Thank you so much.

00:27:58:09 - 00:27:59:00
Sprecher 1
Thank you. Bye bye.